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Are we reporting center?

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Yes, Bob Ripple available.

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This is he.

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Bob, this is Val Henry from the Center for UFO Studies.

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Hi, how are you?

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Okay, good to talk to you again.

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We got a very brief letter from some people who talked about a sighting that was reported in Portland, Oregon

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closer to year, neck of the woods, back on the 29th, I believe it was.

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I don't even see the date for that.

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Oh, hang on a second.

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I think it's the 29th.

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10.40 p.m. Sunday the 29th.

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And I guess it was on KATU Channel 2 News in Portland

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because of all the hundreds of calls that police and their National Guard and people got regarding it.

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Some kind of mysterious light's floating around the sky.

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A lot of people thought, do you know anything about it?

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Hang on, let me check the file.

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Okay.

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The only thing we got for that date in that area is a report which obviously by the description from the witness

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is one of these nighttime advertising aircraft.

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Uh-huh.

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Okay, it says this really seems to have very little to do with that.

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It's the seven independent lights in the sky all moving about independently of each other.

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Uh-huh.

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The drawings I've got here is almost like looking at the old Trumont in Utah movie.

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And I guess there were hundreds of calls to, let's see, in Portland, the police, the Air Force, the National Guard,

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Sheriff's Office, the air traffic control there.

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Hang on, let me check the other light.

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Just in case I'm holding the phone.

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Sure.

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Thank you.

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Sorry for the interruption, Bob.

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I've got a phone downstairs in the first floor.

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I want the extension up the second floor.

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Oh, I'll keep you exercising.

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Okay.

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Well, I'm definitely going to have to.

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I call you to find out if you do anything because the people send very little of their letter.

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If I haven't got a phone number, I can call someone and have to mail to them.

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What time did that happen?

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The, let's see, was that 10.40 p.m. on Sunday the 29th?

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Huh.

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What are we doing?

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What are we doing?

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They don't have a phone?

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Or they just didn't listen to me?

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They gave me their address, but I tried, I called the directory.

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It's an unusual name too, but I called the directory and they didn't have a listing for it.

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What are we doing?

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Well, let's see, do you want to give me their name and maybe we can get in contact with them?

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Okay, well, I figured I'll mail them too.

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Oh, okay.

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I'll mail them off too.

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I'll give you the name if you're interested.

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Sure.

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It's, uh...

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Uh-huh.

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Okay.

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In Portland, Oregon.

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Right.

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And zip is 97211.

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If you're right to mention to them that, uh, we told you about it.

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Right to?

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Our thing's been back there.

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Pardon?

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Our thing's been back there.

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Okay, it's not that you knew madness, rush, that I would have anticipated, you know, the usual seasonality.

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It hasn't really taken place.

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It's not about the same number of calls this month as it did last month.

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Usually there's that big jump that they peak at calls.

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Uh, how about you?

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Quiet.

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I suppose you got wind of the big meteor that was seen all the way from Naha, California up to Vancouver.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah, we heard about that one.

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Now, according to NORAD, it's not a reentry, which surprises me.

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So that's quite a big meteor.

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Well, I'll tell you, that flash that thing created without a concussion of any kind is really something.

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Yeah, it looked up the whole sky.

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That's what everybody agrees upon.

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Yeah.

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Just like daylight.

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Uh-huh.

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Or some people told me like lightning without clouds in the sky.

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Yeah.

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Uh, we should have seen something like that.

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I was sure NORAD was going to tell me up in the reentry that kind of mass, that kind of distance that it covered.

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But they had nothing on it.

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Well, of course you know NORAD, though.

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Of course, I think if it was a space junk reentry, they'd say so.

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They always have in the past.

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Yeah.

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I've got a pretty good working relationship with a guy named Kinchi there at Public Affairs.

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Uh-huh.

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You probably spoke into him yourself.

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I think I have, yes.

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Yeah.

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Say, listen, there's one thing I would like to ask you.

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How does one get a hold of you in the middle of the night if something real big breaks somewhere?

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Oh, okay.

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I'll give you my phone number.

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Okay.

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Uh, not that I have a lot of extension in my, to study in my house.

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I'm usually here most of the time.

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Anyway.

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Okay.

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But the area codes 312.

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Uh-huh.

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Okay, great.

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I was just wondering about that here a while back, because I don't know what kind of setup

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you had with the telephone answering service on the hotline.

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Uh-huh.

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Well, if something important happens, they call me anytime.

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Yeah, I see.

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I have to come on the home number.

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Otherwise, they just accumulate the materials for me.

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And I get back in touch with them on a daily basis.

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Right.

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Okay.

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Well, there's not a darn thing to report here.

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We've been hoping for something big, but seems like that the expected big flap just isn't

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going to come.

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Uh, it's so funny.

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I don't know why anyone expects a big flap to be honest with you.

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But, uh...

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Well, only because they have a couple of things to do with it.

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But, uh...

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Well, only because they have a curve in the past is all.

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You know, after certain time gaps.

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Right.

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Not really.

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I mean, if you're thinking of something like Saunders material, then you're talking about

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Union, I think, the Euro mountains.

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Uh, but otherwise, no.

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In fact, you know, looking at the Air Force curve, you know, for seasonality, averaged

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out over 22 years, there was always a big jump in the month of June compared to, uh, to

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May.

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And, uh, we...

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Ever since I've been doing this since November, following up on the calls and logging them,

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we've been following their curve just exactly.

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We really have for average seasonality.

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And I expected the onslaught this month that it's happened.

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Yeah, well, of course, the kids get out of school and then they start seeing things.

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Right.

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So, did you hear about the, uh, mini-flap or major flap, whatever it is, in Chile?

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Uh, yeah, we have.

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Primarily what we've heard, of course, is the one case that will be the highlight of the

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Chile activity.

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Um, we've got umpteen different news wires on that, but nothing directly from any investigation

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on there.

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Right.

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Now in South America, considering the kind of stories that come up.

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How's Dr. Heineck?

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Okay, very good.

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Do you have any scheduled trips coming out this way?

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He was out in Washington way not too long ago, as I recall.

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Months and a half back, I think it was.

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But, um, not, not lately, as far as I know, he's labeled right now.

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Um, well, I'll tell you what I'll do on this side, regarding this, on the case, is I'll,

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since the Air National Guard claimed on the news that they got a lot of calls, and since

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they probably take a more vested interest in that than the police or the Air Force,

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I will give them a buzz and see what they noted on this thing.

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Yeah, because that's really the first leaf of it, no surprise being so close.

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We just got a single letter on it.

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Yeah, I know you have good coverage.

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Whenever I speak to FAA, California, any of the states around there, they always mention

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you.

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Say, they're the guy they relay stuff to.

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Well, they don't relay it.

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They might give out our number, but they don't call personally.

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Well, that's also technically the case with me, too.

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He's getting out on a confidentiality, a number to everybody, but so it's come to the point

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where I just can't complain, but be grateful that I get the...

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Yeah, I'm surprised that they don't cooperate more with you right from the TARS with that

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number that you got.

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You know, call right when it happens.

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I think that half of them don't have the number in their possession.

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But I don't know whether, you know, of course, there's a lot of those people who aren't in

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at least a bit interested.

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You know, you came up in a conversation with a guy called me from FAA in Washington.

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They were reworking the latest version of the FAA advisory.

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And he would have liked to have made life easy by running the center's phone number directly

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in the FAA advisory.

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You know, because that's what about a wording, it's that call to closest, you know, institution of

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higher learning.

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Like a university, what do they care?

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But then it could be called to visit the TEMPT by other FAA facilities, of course, that they have...

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You're about the route left to call, you know, for this sort of thing.

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Now, it began to learn of APRO, began to learn of OOPON.

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And that is, yes, it's not a pathetic means of...

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It's no one 800 number we could give out that would service everybody.

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But all the groups could agree.

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You know.

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In all honesty, I had to tell them, oh, and I really don't know how the plan to resolve that.

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God, yeah, they give out...

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You know, if they start passing your number out to the general public, why you could end up with a deluge

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of just junk calls.

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I know.

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And then when the high priority stuff wants to come through, they just can't get through.

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That's the big problem with an 800 number on this subject, because it leaves the door wide open to all the cranks in the country.

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Well, certainly with our police, without the waiters, I've spoken to maybe four cranks and 800 calls.

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But I think we're pre-screening a little too strongly.

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Either there really aren't any humanoid cases, things taking place right now.

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We're just not getting them.

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Physical trace cases, anything like that.

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Did you hear about the one in...

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Well, let's see. Now, this would be done by Pittsburgh, California?

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Yeah, as a matter of fact, we were on-store.

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I spoke to the kids initially.

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In fact, the night that it happened, excuse me, within 24 hours that it happened, I can list every radar facility, most civilian and military, in that area.

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What no luck whatsoever.

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The night after the night it happened.

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And then I got Richard Haynes to go out there and talk to the boys as well.

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I also spoke to them to an extent on the phone, but it was clear that they needed somebody to go back out to the site to point things out.

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So I've got a certain amount of preliminary information on that from Dick Haynes, and I'll be writing it up the next time you are.

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Do you receive it now?

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No.

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You're not?

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No.

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No, I was too much in the poor house to get a subscription in.

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But did those kids ever take a lighting test or a test?

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No, I really don't. The nature of the descriptions they provide it is sort of tenuous and mirage-like in itself.

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But there's nothing to really commit them to.

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If they were making up a story, they didn't make up a very good one.

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Dark figures that can barely be seen walking down the road towards them.

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A UFO that could only be made out by the roll of windows along it, not like an airplane unfortunately,

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but it was just a few steady large windows that were there for an hour.

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They couldn't even be sure whether it actually landed on the ground or just rose above it.

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They all offered very tenuous stories.

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It's not the kind of thing that somebody would make up really.

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Really, unfortunately, it's of highly limited value.

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Yeah, and I guess that neither one of them had any real background knowledge.

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Of course they were too young to...

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Well...

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Yeah.

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But I think somebody that's thought of an extreme detail and resolution of experience,

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said, yeah, I could see going to polygraph.

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So my experience with polygraph on this attempt at all that promising.

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Yeah.

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So once took a woman named Hicks in the crew for a television show special based on an experience she had in Hillsborough, Illinois back in 1975,

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with Kim Adoite in her backyard.

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I took her in to John Leighton, an associate here in Chicago.

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And she would give it a polygraph test where she would simply ask the four valiant on the same question,

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are you telling the truth about the details of the writing?

245
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And depending on how they worded the questions,

246
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sometimes she would register a considerable amount of stress,

247
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and the next time she'd register no stress at all, even though it was the same question,

248
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just worded in a different way.

249
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And they had to rule off the test as being a valid arbiter or proof for or against.

250
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And their general comment, it was the first time they had experience with polygraph with a UFO witness.

251
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They said there's so much room for such activity, you know, and personal observation that it's just not a clear cut.

252
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As their usual experience of saying, did you rob money from a bank or didn't you rob money from a bank?

253
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Right.

254
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There's so much latitude for personal interpretation.

255
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So I've been a little off-polygraphed myself, in fact, I've been a little frustrated to find any type of procedure to back up a person's integrity.

256
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What about that psychological stress evaluator or voice?

257
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We've heard good things about it. It's an extensive thing, I can tell you that.

258
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We had a brochure on it, advertising one, which you could hook up directly to your telephone,

259
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so that when you spoke to people of the phone, they'd move it to you whether what they're telling you or what they're doing.

260
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Right. And the man who made that thing up, who was just east of Seattle.

261
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That's right. He learned about $1,600 for it.

262
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Yeah, that's all.

263
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That's right.

264
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I don't know whether the truth is worse that much or not.

265
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Of course, the measure is, you know, stress, I suppose, but to a great extent you have to ask, you know, what's inspiring the stress?

266
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In other words, the problem is polygraph, too.

267
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So much of an interpretation, you know.

268
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I see what analogy that I always pass out is that someone's not magician doing a trick.

269
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And you didn't know how the trick was done.

270
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You got asked, you know, did you really see a big woman disappear in her cloak?

271
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You'd say, yes, you really did.

272
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You showed no stress on PSE.

273
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You passed polygraph, truth serum, everything else, but then it really happened physically, blah, blah, blah.

274
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Right.

275
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You know, sending these boys, they'd be like, you're in the dark.

276
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One of them, you know, gave me a detailed thing about how after we were walking in, they had a limp, and they were marching in step.

277
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You know, the boys, they didn't see both kind of details.

278
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But with a hope, they shouldn't agree on the facts at all.

279
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Well, don't you think it would make a difference if the original reports, the original conversation went through a PSI machine?

280
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It doesn't even have to be original, as I understand it.

281
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For example, they subjected a tape recording off of a television interview with Hixson and Parker with Tastagulants, and they were describing it long after the fact.

282
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Well, the PSI revealed that they were telling the truth.

283
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If you want to interpret it as such, considerably after the thing had been put into the past, it's still fair to ask the question.

284
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What variable for involvement creates stress besides an awareness that you're not accurately portraying the facts, especially long after you told the story up to ten times, and you kind of, you know, comfortably settled into place with it.

285
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So I saw Dr. Heineken, this, um...

286
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Oh, I can't remember this guy's name.

287
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What's the variable for involvement?

288
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Yeah, right.

289
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Yeah, it was a pretty close call.

290
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They thought, like, you know, about an hour's worth, because it valid for about ten minutes.

291
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He made the statement there that the center is evaluating or investigating up to twelve reduction reports right now. Is this true?

292
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Uh, they are not new reduction cases.

293
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I should note along to the California, you know, the hypnotist lead over William McCall, um, and they tried a controlled experiment where they took people who had not had abduction experiences, put them under hypnosis, and attempting not to lead them.

294
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They simply asked them, you know, whether or not they'd ever been abductioned by UFO, and I guess they proceeded to go into great detailed narratives, describing the occupants and the interior of the craft, and everything.

295
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All six volunteers did this stuff, and at the end, when they asked what the studies and experiences gave up, or were they real, the people start insisting they're real. All six.

296
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:51,000
Well, I don't know any of the details. I don't know how much they led these witnesses, or how much input, you know, they were fed. The report that stands right now is not preliminary. It doesn't really go into detail.

297
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But, uh, I've always been, I've always ordered, I've always been a little suspicious about whether or not people were just bringing up fantasy by their subconscious as their minds are being addressed by hypnosis, or whether or not, uh, really was an accurate portrayal of something that had happened, physically.

298
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Ever since then, the little finger talks about that Missouri fishermen case that happened last year, I think it was last summer, where the guy was being hypnotized. He told a story about the fishing near the car, saw some UFOs, run back to the car, and slumped over it.

299
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Came to about three hours later, when they hypnotized him, he told about being abducted, examined, dropped onto an alien landscape, and then returned again, back to his car.

300
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The hypnotist asked him to describe the occupants, and he gave a really horrendous looking appearance, even for usefulness. The hypnotist asked him, are you sure? This guy found a second, not a pretty hypnotic chance, he found a second and said, no, no, that's something I saw, that's what they come at, said.

301
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As I understand it, in about 20 hours of recording testimony, there's a lot of singers like that.

302
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:46,000
And I was in that case, that maybe first start wondering about whether or not, you know, I've been following Leo's sprinkled statements, how difficult or impossible it is to lie under hypnosis, but, uh, that, and now this report on this controlled experiment, the six volunteers who've never seen a UFO before, all of them loosensily describing occupants in the interior and all the craft, and the instruments, and the light panels, and everything.

303
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:55,000
But the accidents look like all of their hypnosis, but I guess a bit of them are leading by the investigators. Really makes you ask questions.

304
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,000
Well, that's kind of scary.

305
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,000
Yeah, it is.

306
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:15,000
I mean, you know, I'm sure you know as well as I do, but with all the people calling in the ad planes, and calling us with their dope clips, with lights running around the edges, and everything else, you know, reading all this detail into these workshop blocks, and sure you've wondered as much as I have, how much of this stuff.

307
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000
And I think that's part of the problem is partly sociological.

308
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,000
Right.

309
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,000
How much of an emotional climate there is affecting people's judgments about UFOs.

310
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,000
And this is sort of directly to the point.

311
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Leo, I think that's enough of your time, Bob.

312
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Well, I sure have been a pleasure talking to you again.

313
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,000
Okay, you're not coming to the big conference by any chance, are you?

314
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,000
No, no, I'm, uh, I'm retired now, so I got my little tip.

315
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I'm going to do a little bit of a presentation of what I can do.

316
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,000
Okay.

317
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000
I sure like to, because it sounds like a dandy.

318
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,000
Uh-huh, uh-huh.

319
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000
Well, let's just know what it's like when I talk to you later on.

320
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,000
Very good.

321
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,000
Okay, great.